{"id":8485,"date":"2021-03-27T13:06:00","date_gmt":"2021-03-27T12:06:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/powerofrhythm.com\/?post_type=podcast-episode&#038;p=8485"},"modified":"2021-05-17T23:05:30","modified_gmt":"2021-05-17T21:05:30","slug":"35-shamans-of-the-new-world-yaacov-darling-khan","status":"publish","type":"podcast-episode","link":"https:\/\/powerofrhythm.com\/de\/podcast-episode\/35-shamans-of-the-new-world-yaacov-darling-khan\/","title":{"rendered":"EPISODE #35: SHAMANS OF THE NEW WORLD WITH YA\u2019ACOV DARLING KHAN"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>[et_pb_section fb_built=&#8220;1&#8243; module_id=&#8220;episodes&#8220; _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220; background_color=&#8220;#ffffff&#8220; custom_padding=&#8220;0px||0px||true|false&#8220;][et_pb_row column_structure=&#8220;1_2,1_2&#8243; use_custom_gutter=&#8220;on&#8220; gutter_width=&#8220;1&#8243; _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220; width=&#8220;100%&#8220;][et_pb_column type=&#8220;1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220;][et_pb_image src=&#8220;https:\/\/powerofrhythm.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/04\/35_Shamans-Yaacov.jpg&#8220; title_text=&#8220;35_Shamans-Yaacov&#8220; _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220; width=&#8220;66.6%&#8220; width_tablet=&#8220;100%&#8220; width_phone=&#8220;&#8220; width_last_edited=&#8220;on|desktop&#8220; module_alignment=&#8220;left&#8220; module_alignment_tablet=&#8220;center&#8220; module_alignment_phone=&#8220;center&#8220; module_alignment_last_edited=&#8220;on|phone&#8220;][\/et_pb_image][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=&#8220;1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220; custom_margin=&#8220;|||-119px|false|false&#8220; custom_margin_tablet=&#8220;40px|||0px|false|false&#8220; custom_margin_phone=&#8220;40px||||false|false&#8220; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8220;on|tablet&#8220; custom_padding=&#8220;|||2px||&#8220;]<\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode explores shamanism in modern times. My talk with Ya\u2019acov Darling Khan reveals, that shamans are not just ancient healers from the past.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Ya\u2019acov Darling Khan is acknowledged as a practicing shaman by indigenous elders from the Arctic to the Amazon. His message is: Shamanism, and a shift from society\u2019s focus on acquisition to reciprocity, is a key to restoring our universal connection and solving our interpersonal and world issues. Ya\u2019acov sees shamanism as a path to reawaken a sense of the magic, potential and splendour of creation.<\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row disabled_on=&#8220;off|off|off&#8220; module_id=&#8220;groove2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220; background_color=&#8220;rgba(214,214,214,0.35)&#8220; width=&#8220;100%&#8220; custom_margin=&#8220;10px||10px||true|false&#8220; custom_padding=&#8220;20px|10px|10px|20px|false|false&#8220; locked=&#8220;off&#8220; gutter_width__hover_enabled=&#8220;off|hover&#8220;][et_pb_column type=&#8220;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220;][et_pb_code _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220; background_enable_image=&#8220;off&#8220; custom_margin=&#8220;5px|10px|||false|false&#8220;]<iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed-podcast\/episode\/4p6uFGLkwM7dINSJtZBnDP\" width=\"100%\" height=\"232\" frameborder=\"0\" allowtransparency=\"true\" allow=\"encrypted-media\"><\/iframe>[\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row disabled_on=&#8220;off|off|off&#8220; _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220; width=&#8220;100%&#8220; custom_padding=&#8220;50px|||||&#8220;][et_pb_column type=&#8220;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220; custom_margin=&#8220;||3px|||&#8220; locked=&#8220;off&#8220;]<\/p>\n<h2>Watch it on YouTube:<\/h2>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_code _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220;]<\/p>\n<div class=\"videoWrapper\"><!-- [et_pb_line_break_holder] -->  <iframe loading=\"lazy\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/Y8jbO6RLfKc\" title=\"YouTube video player\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><!-- [et_pb_line_break_holder] --><\/div>\n<p>[\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row disabled_on=&#8220;off|off|off&#8220; _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220; width=&#8220;100%&#8220;][et_pb_column type=&#8220;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220; custom_margin=&#8220;||||false|false&#8220; custom_padding=&#8220;||0px||false|false&#8220;]<\/p>\n<h2>Transcript of this Episode<\/h2>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220; hover_enabled=&#8220;0&#8243; sticky_enabled=&#8220;0&#8243;]<\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Today we&#8217;re focusing on a theme that&#8217;s widely misunderstood and yet at the same time it sparks a growing interest. And that is shamanism. To bring light into this ancient art of healing and connecting with invisible worlds, I&#8217;m looking forward to a talk with my guest today because he&#8217;s acknowledged as a practicing shaman by many Indigenous elders and communities, from the Arctic to the Amazon. Traveling the world he worked with many groups and he spoke to audiences such as the Esalen Organization and the Embodiment Convention and his message is: Shamanism, and the shift from society&#8217;s focus on acquisition to reciprocity, is the key to restoring our universal connection and solving our interpersonal and world issues in this process. Together with his wife Susannah he founded the School of Movement Medicine. Welcome Ya\u2019acov Darling Khan!<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Thank you so much. What a pleasure to be here. I loved your introduction: the one thing that connects us all, rhythm. Beautiful, right in.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Thank you. It really does, right? So actually I would love to start with a little episode that has happened in your life that I&#8217;m aware of. You have been on a golf course and you have been struck by a lightning. My question is: Was this a part of your awakening and has it changed your life? And if so, how?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Yeah absolutely. I was in my early 20s and simply having a game of golf with a friend and a storm came over. We had one of those golf umbrellas which has a metal tip. Like a fool I didn&#8217;t even think about it and we were stood on the hill. I was holding the umbrella, he was underneath it with me. We were in physical touch and the next thing I knew is that he&#8217;d been thrown off me and I felt like a tent peg had been bashed into the ground. I wasn&#8217;t hurt in any way. I did wonder for a while if I was dead or alive, I didn&#8217;t know. I was certainly shocked but what it gave me immediately was like \u201cOh I&#8217;m here, I&#8217;m alive, I&#8217;m awake, I&#8217;m present.\u201d And I&#8217;ve been half asleep, I&#8217;ve been dismissing and pushing away all kinds of experiences from my childhood into my adolescence that as an adolescent they weren&#8217;t really cool. So I tried to fit in like most adolescents. But that lightning strike it really put me on my path. I recognized I could be dead, so it brought death very close which in my experience always focuses the mind. When death is close it helps us to filter down into, or to shine the light down into what actually matters. So I started to study and I started to pick up the kinds of experiences I&#8217;d had as a child and to explore what were they about and how could they be useful. Around that time I discovered that there was such a thing called Shamanism, and Shamanism was the first theme or broad subject matter that helped me to make sense of my own experience. I was like, \u201cOh not only do people all around the world have these kind of experiences but they&#8217;ve been having them forever. They\u2019re not even particularly strange or special, they&#8217;re just part of our human existence\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">It sounds like it was a real wake-up call, it\u2019s amazing. When I was in a Zen monastery in Korea one master told me, \u201cYou need to die to your life before you die.\u201d So it&#8217;s very strange, in the vicinity of death many people wake up. That\u2019s true.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Very true! It made me very interested in death as well. I actually started working as a volunteer in a hospice and I felt very close to people who were dying. Not at all afraid just deeply privileged to be close and again it was that focus of attention. When you haven&#8217;t got long left there&#8217;s a focus that comes in. So death really helped me like a camera lens just to bring myself out of that blurred \u201cOh one day i&#8217;ll get down to living\u201d into \u201cit&#8217;s now, it\u2019s now\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span style=\"font-size: 18px;\">Before we dive into this really really vast subject of shamanism\u2026 You found, together with your wife, the Movement Medicine and what you say about it, is that it is a creative embodiment meditation practice for our times. You also say it&#8217;s rooted in ancient wisdom and modern understanding of how change happens. So explain us ancient wisdom and modern understanding. What you exactly mean by that?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Right, great questions Reinhard. Ancient wisdom\u2026 Our ancestors knew all about the cycles of life. The original shamans were the original systems thinkers, they were the original ecologists. They understood our place as humans in the the bigger web of life. They had a direct sense of that through their visions, through their understanding, through their place in their community. The place of the shaman in community was all about initiation, marking moments of change individually, but also in the community like when the season changes, when the moon changes, when the hunt is coming. For all of these very day-to-day important activities they created spaces which were storytelling, which were dance, which were theater, which were healing, which were collective, which were individual, where we remembered our individual connection to the bigger picture of life.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So those ceremonies place the individual back in the context of \u201cwe\u201d, of \u201cus\u201d, of life as a whole and our place in it, and our role in it. And in the modern world we&#8217;ve become very individualized, very focused on the self and I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a bad thing as a process of evolution. Not at all. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I think a lot of those ancient communities they were full of taboos and full of \u201cshoulds&#8220; and \u201cshouldn\u2019ts\u201d, and the idea of personal freedom that you could choose your own partner or choose your own work, or choose your own place to live, that just didn&#8217;t exist. There were quite rigid structures. So the individual kind of broke out of that and then we kind of swung over to that side of the pendulum. And I think our modern challenge is how to be self connected to us, to we, to this, and so to be what one of our teachers called \u201cThe tribal individual\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And in terms of modern understanding of how change happens, we&#8217;ve learned a lot recently about the nervous system and the effect of different things on our nervous system: the effect of the past on our present experience, the effect of how we are taught to concentrate or learn which puts us on high alert, which makes it much more difficult for us to learn anything. If we&#8217;re on very very high alert or we feel threatened, or we&#8217;re worried about getting it wrong, and I know you know that because I was blessed to come to one of your workshops one time and I loved that spaciousness\u2026 Like \u201cif you&#8217;re finding it hard lie down on the floor a while, rest. Then come back start again at the basic.\u201d And that sense of \u201cwe have to be able or willing to make mistakes in order to learn\u201d which is so different than the kind of education I grew up in\u2026. So we&#8217;re learning about acceptance and safety as well as intention and dedication and commitment, and how the brain works when we feel under threatened. Even as much as our capacity to hear closes down, the muscles in our ears contract when we feel under threat. So these understandings have helped us to create modern forms that answer that ancient need for community, for ritual, for belonging, for initiation.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">I think you really laid out very well the two parts, the ancient and the modern. Now my question is here, because people might not know how does that look, how to imagine Movement Medicine. And there&#8217;s a lot of great guys now talking about movement. Ido Portal, for example: \u201cMove or die.\u201d So, how do I imagine, if I come to a Movement Medicine workshop, course, training\u2026 what I&#8217;m going to do?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Well, the first thing we&#8217;re doing is we are helping each individual to shift the focus of their attention from thinking about moving and thinking about \u201chow do I look, am I doing the right moves, am I getting it right, should I be doing this more.\u201d The self-consciousness that is so much a part of our experience. And I really recognize this because I was never a dancer. When I went to my first dance workshop I was horrified. I felt completely like a fish out of water and I hated to dance. But I discovered it wasn&#8217;t dance that I hated. It was the feeling of self-consciousness, of feeling wrong, feeling not at home in my being. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So the first step: shift the attention for instance into feeling rhythm in your feet. We put music on, we&#8217;ll have repetitive rhythm. How does the rhythm feel in your feet if you walk, if you simply walk in the beat? And then add the awareness of breath to that. And then you shift the attention into your knees and you let your knees be moved as if that rhythm was specific for your knees. How do your knees respond if you let them play? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So we&#8217;re teaching people to in a way get back into that child-like fascination and exploration of their own physicality. And we&#8217;re constantly helping them to keep on bringing the attention back to the experience of the body moving. What it feels like.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Which means sensing. And sensing is always now. In other words you&#8217;re bringing the people into the here and now. So, what music are you using? Is it live music? Is it recorded music? And what kind of recorded music is it?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV <br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Well we use a vast range of music. Music for us is medicine. Music\u2026 the rhythm, the melody, like what you can do with eight notes, it&#8217;s just extraordinary. Like how creative the human spirit can be and what a landscape that music can create. We tend to work with rhythmic music without words or at least without words that can be understood. Maybe some language that&#8217;s not spoken in the area where we&#8217;re working. But mostly really working with rhythmic music and repetitive rhythmic music. In a way we are helping people to concentrate on that repetition. Like the rhythm is constant, it&#8217;s something that you can give your weight to, you can learn to trust, it&#8217;s going to be there, the next beat is going to be there, you kind of know where it is. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">What&#8217;s amazing, and I&#8217;m sure you know this, is how quickly people discover their creativity.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Like how ready we are to let go of the idea that I can\u2019t.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">We are creative beings. If you just take away the conception of what you&#8217;re not and what you are already, the creativity is there already and opens up. So it&#8217;s not something you have to achieve. You are a creative being.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Yes. And in a way we&#8217;re always inviting people. We&#8217;re saying, \u201cLook, you are being creative. Just most of the time you&#8217;re being unconsciously creative. Let&#8217;s try be consciously creative, let&#8217;s put that creativity to a good purpose which is discovering who you are, discovering what matters to you, and embodying that so that you can explore the physical language, like extend your physical vocabulary, which in turn extends your emotional vocabulary.\u201d Which in turn also opens the mind to be able to receive different stories or meanings from our experience of life so far. So things arise.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">People come into a setting which is about learning. They bring with them their history of learning. They bring with them there all their relationship with teachers and all their relationship with comparison. So there&#8217;s a lot going on in the individual just when you say, \u201cokay let&#8217;s awaken the dancer and let&#8217;s shift the attention from knees, elbows, hands, fingers<b>,<\/b> back of the heart.\u201d Like, let the head move with the body, give it breath. As soon as you start to allow the body to move in the way that it naturally wants to, rather than be held in the shapes that we&#8217;ve learned to hold, everything starts to loosen. The heart loosens, the mind loosens, the body, the joints loosen and then you get this much deeper flow of life. \u201cSensing\u201d, you just said. That capacity to sense and the amount of life that&#8217;s moving through us can increase.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">I imagine that with that you take them also out of what they think they know. Like the educational conditioning into the unknown or, till this point not discovered realms. And I think that this connects it of course with shamanism because that&#8217;s all about journeying out in a world that for most people doesn\u2019t exist, like the dreaming and all of that. So as we are turning over to that realm gradually, which basically is a smooth transition\u2026 You sent me two tracks and one of the tracks is called \u201cShaman\u2019s Song\u201d. Shall we listen a little bit? Then you can tell us what it is, okay? So let&#8217;s go.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p2\"><em>Shaman&#8217;s Song by Ya&#8217;acov Darling Khan sounds.<\/em><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">As we explore shamanism the effects could clearly be felt.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span style=\"font-size: 18px;\">But what are the instruments that we did here? And, where has it been recorded? And, what&#8217;s the ceremony behind it?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Powerful to hear. Really strong to have that sense of\u2026 the intention behind that music which is really to bring together a marriage or a connection between the spirit &#8211; dreaming self, our imaginal self &#8211; and the physicality of being here on this Earth in a body, with a heart, a human being that feels. And there are many phases in that music. What we&#8217;re hearing is a traditional Shaman&#8217;s drum that was given to me by an old Sami Shaman who called Bikko Matthis Penta, who lived up in the very North of the Arctic Circle and he carried that drum for 30 years. And the last time I saw him before he died he gave it to me. It has a whole story because the drum for the Sami people is really the heart and soul of their culture and until relatively recently the penalty for playing or owning or making a drum, could be death. So that&#8217;s an example of how we&#8217;ve attacked our own European Shamanic traditions.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">How would they put a penalty of death for making a drum? You need to explain that?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">The powers that be in the church basically made it illegal on the pain of death to own or play or make a drum. Because they knew that the drum was really the very core of the Sami culture&#8217;s capacity to connect with the land, with their mythology, with their ancestry, with their ways and that was in the way of the new religion on the block.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">But that&#8217;s not right now\u2026 right now they could build, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Now, but it was up until about 70 or 80 years ago, it&#8217;s relatively recent which is extraordinary. And that drum is made from a Birch tree and from a reindeer skin and when he gave me the drum we had a little initiation ceremony. He had another drum and we played the drums together and he stopped me halfway through playing. I was really playing and he went<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>\u201cYa\u2019acov,<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>stop\u201d. And I was like \u201cwow, what what&#8217;s what\u2026\u201d And he said \u201cwhat&#8217;s this drum made of?\u201d I said \u201cbirch tree and a reindeer skin.\u201d \u201cWhat does that mean, a reindeer skin?\u201d \u201cA reindeer died and you made it into the skin for this drum.\u201d \u201cYes, what does it mean to kill an animal?\u201d And I said \u201cI don&#8217;t know, I&#8217;m a vegan.\u201d He said \u201cI thought so from the way you&#8217;re playing that drum. You clearly have no idea what it means to touch that skin. You have to, if you want to know what this drum is, go and hunt.\u201d And I was like \u201cYou didn&#8217;t tell me that when you invited me here to do this initiation.\u201d But I did. I found somebody who could take me hunting, who could take me through the whole experience of what it means to take the life of an animal, to gut it, to clean the skin and to make that skin into a drum skin. And it completely changed it. Again it gave me a much deeper sense of my place in the cycle of living and dying. And the other instrument you heard was didgeridoo played by a dear friend of us. That&#8217;s a really great caller of attention into rhythm and it gives that root, base, ground, earthy feeling of continuity and breath. That recycling of the breath is such an invocation of keep breathing, keep moving, keep with it, stay with the rhythm. And then we also heard a leaf rattle that comes from a dear friend of mine, a brother from the Amazon called Manari Ushigua. The leaf rattle is what the Shamans in the Amazon use to purify, to cleanse. They say it calls the spirit of the wind to come all the way through you and to cleanse and purify. So this is a a purification song but it&#8217;s also an invocation of that part of the listener to dance into that repetitive beat to the point where the mind gives up trying to follow and the body is free, and the heart is open. And once the mind has given up then our experiences does open to\u2026 It&#8217;s not that we go somewhere else because the Shamanism that we&#8217;re teaching is Indigenous which means it&#8217;s body-based Shamanism. A lot of people that practice Shamanism they go off to all kinds of places and all kinds of far-out experiences but because there&#8217;s nobody at home in the body. Because the day-to-day experience is disembodied it&#8217;s very hard to integrate the experience. Indigenous people live in their body, they&#8217;re chopping wood, they&#8217;re hunting, they&#8217;re using their body all the time. So for them to send their spirit to another reality, to a dream world to find a gift and bring it back, that\u2019s very possible. But for us, our practice is to be here in the body, in the heart and to open our awareness to receive, to connect to a bigger picture, to other forms of information whether that&#8217;s through the light of the sun or the wide open space of the sky. Or going down into the roots, going down into the ground. So we&#8217;re able to see our own experience of life through a different perspective.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">We also heard some overtone singing\u2026?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Yes. Every shamanic culture I know has a form of spirit song. And the spirit song is taught traditionally either in ceremony or in a diet. That means a very focused period of time where you&#8217;re not eating and you&#8217;re focused on working with particular quality like you might die at an oak tree in order to really feel this power of an oak tree, and to feel what it is to have that level of ground and slowness and moving with the seasons. Songs are taught also in dreams. So this song is a song that I was taught in dreaming when I was in the Amazon Rainforest apprenticing there. This song is the call of a particular spirit of the Amazon. Actually it\u2019s the spirit of a very real tree. It&#8217;s a very tall tree that has right at the top of it these big black seed balls, like enormous. And in the traditional ceremonies in the Amazon the Shaman might call that tree and in spirit form it comes in and it throws this ball of seeds at the sickness and those seeds explode in light. And so it&#8217;s a purification song.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">So it&#8217;s based where you learned in Colombia, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">This was in Ecuador and in Peru.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Okay. I have also been with a Shaman for two years which was in Korea. Kim Sok Chul, the last living Shaman. He died unfortunately now. And they have quite a different music and I want to play this for you because that&#8217;s their way of journeying out into the dreaming, and magic things happen because in the dreaming everything is of course interconnected.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Mudang by Korean Shaman Kim Sok Chul sounds.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It&#8217;s so amazing that most of the healing music or Shamanic music, or even Tibetan music is not pretty, there is not any aesthetic in it but it&#8217;s so powerful. Even the music we played from you, like people first think \u201coh where can I get something to hold on.\u201d But the whole aim is to get this away.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">The one word that kept coming listening to that music is disruption. It disrupts the status quo, it disrupts our normal consciousness. It kind of breaks through what we think of as the only reality and just opens something up. Wow, very strong. It\u2019s so interesting, our son has just married a Korean woman so I&#8217;m going to ask you for that piece of music.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">I came into it because I was actually in Korea making a documentation for the Goethe Institute and I got absolutely sick to the point where I was about to die, I was in the hospital. And that&#8217;s how I met Kim Sok Chul. I had like 40 degrees fever and they put me into this music. This sounds relatively sweet against what they did\u2026 They had like eight different\u2026The kkwaenggwari is that harsh sound you hear here, and you have headache\u2026It&#8217;s like you&#8217;re gonna die. You cannot survive this. And it&#8217;s so amazing, it just took two weeks and I was very much back to power. That was kind of my connection. He said, \u201ccome back to learn, be with me.\u201d And so I came back and stayed two years with him.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">It&#8217;s often the way that through hurt or something breaking, or something shocking, or through illness, that we find some Shamanic practice.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Do you want to share some of your experiences of how you met your Shaman teacher in Colombia and Ecuador?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Yeah! I&#8217;ve had several traditions that I&#8217;ve been lucky enough to study in. And all the Shamans I work with had one thing in common, they all said the same thing. They said, \u201clook you&#8217;re not here to train to be an Amazonian Shaman or a Sami Shaman.\u201d And I had no wish to go in and take somebody else&#8217;s culture and their story. But I was lucky enough to learn and they said \u201cyour job is to translate whatever you receive here and create something that&#8217;s appropriate and contemporary for the place and the people where you are.\u201d And that&#8217;s what Movement Medicine is. I met Bikko Matthis Penta, the Sami Shaman through dreams. I was dreaming about him for 12 years and it never occurred to me that he was a real human being. I just used to call him The Old Man of the North and before I was teaching I would always make a little offering and say \u201coh man of the North anything I should look out for\u2026\u201d and I would get information and then he would come in my dreams, I saw his house, I saw where he lived\u2026 and through a whole series of crazy circumstances, which I did write about in one of the books I wrote &#8211; I told the whole story of that &#8211; I actually then got to meet him. And his house, his face\u2026 it was like meeting an old friend. And he knew me. His joke was what took you so long. So that was for me one of those moments where there was something irrefutable. My rational mind could not compute that. It didn&#8217;t fit in that rational world, it was beyond that. And the same with my work with Shamans in the Amazon. Again I had a very strong dream about flying over the Amazon Rainforest and an old withered finger coming out from the trees and calling me in. And I ended up going into a Traditional Amazonian Ceremony which at that time I knew nothing about, I&#8217;d never heard about it. I had a very strong experience of going back to the beginning of creation, a sense of \u201cwe were family\u201d, all of us were family and that we had forgotten that we were family. And the message was \u201cgo and remind your people that we&#8217;re all family.\u201d But they also said \u201cDon&#8217;t come looking for us. We&#8217;ll call you when it&#8217;s time.\u201d And it took five years from that dream to have another dream which then led me to particular people in Ecuador in the Amazon and in Peru. First of all Peru and then in Ecuador. These days I&#8217;m connected more with the elders of the Zapara and the actual people of Ecuador who are extraordinary real elders. They are national treasures, they&#8217;re human treasures. One of them is an old man called Sumpa, who is in his 80s and we call him The Flower Shaman. He&#8217;s very gentle and sweet but his ceremonies are quite the opposite. They&#8217;re just like \u201cboom, crash.\u201d You are destroyed and then put back together in his ceremonies with an extraordinary artistry and mastery. Then there&#8217;s another guy called Raphael who is more of a jaguar. He has that appearance of like \u201coh my god this guy is fierce.\u201d But his ceremonies are incredibly sweet and gentle. So interesting that paradox.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span style=\"font-size: 18px;\">The message in the today&#8217;s world that we are all originally a family, this is I think more important than ever because this divide and conquer that goes on at the current times, is day by day getting worse. Just the mask that has split families\u2026All of this corona thing has split, making us believe that \u201cOh no, I&#8217;m right\u2026no no, you&#8217;re right.\u201d This division of course makes the systems going and it&#8217;s really time to step out of those systems and telling them \u201cno sorry we don&#8217;t need that, we remember that we are one people.\u201d And only as one people will make it through that crisis.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Exactly. Again I&#8217;m going to quote you an elder from the Amazon, a man called Domingo Peas who&#8217;s the leader of the actual people. He had a very strong vision and he said, \u201cthe only way that our species will find its way through to a better world, to more understanding, is by gathering together the best of all cultures, of all understanding.\u201d So if you were sick and you would go to a hospital and you would have psychotherapists and acupuncturists, and surgeons, and Shamans and hypnotherapists, all working together with all the best healing from all different places, we might\u2026And that&#8217;s not just with healing but with politics, with ideas that we have to learn to listen again to one another. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">That&#8217;s one thing, but I think every one of us first has to understand that you&#8217;re responsible for your immune system, that you are your own healer, you have the power to do something about it, instead of sitting and waiting for a vaccine or something else. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Well again, a vaccine it&#8217;s what the culture knows. Like \u201cthere&#8217;s an enemy, kill it.\u201d And that&#8217;s our medicine rather than \u201cwow, there&#8217;s a sickness here.\u201d That&#8217;s systemic, that&#8217;s to do with how we&#8217;re living and how do we heal that sickness inside ourselves. Yes, between us. And between these different schools of thought so that we can then develop what&#8217;s natural to us. That&#8217;s what Shamanism is and my work is all about invoking in people that understanding of the inner Shaman, that archetype of the inner healer that knows already how to listen to the greater powers of the elements to bring in the waters, to bring in the fire, to bring in the ground, to breathe, to know the tree of life, to sense the power of what&#8217;s behind us, to recognize that the choices we make don&#8217;t just affect our lives but have impact in the generations that follow. To take care in that way.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Our work is to awaken that archetype in as many people as we can. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">And isn&#8217;t it also to awaken the people that there is not just the reality they were taught? There is the table, yes of course there&#8217;s this table. But what&#8217;s about these other realities that are invisible? The dreaming reality and how are we dealing with all of that. When you go and for example smile into your heart. For many people that might be already a weird concept. But it&#8217;s very powerful. Mantak Chia uses that all the time with huge success and I think this is the main thing that people right now, and I see this happening, are awakening up to something more than they were taught there is. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">That&#8217;s the bridge of Shamanism, it\u2019s exactly that. The Shaman is a bridge between the physical down-to-earth reality of \u201cYes, this is a table, yes I&#8217;m talking to you through a computer, this is technology, this is this world of physical brilliance and technology and reality\u201d with this imaginal world. By calling it the imaginal world I don&#8217;t diminish it, not at all. Our imagination is the key that opens the door to be able to understand and see the miracle that we&#8217;re here at all, that life exists, that here we are in this tiny little green planet speeding through an ever-expanding universe. It&#8217;s mysterious, it&#8217;s a great mystery and that mystery, being open to that, is what keeps us as students of life. Like \u201cI don&#8217;t know.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Curiosity!<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Most of the Indigenous people that I&#8217;ve worked with they say \u201cwhen you dream something it already has a reality and it&#8217;s only a matter of time before that comes into form in the physical world.\u201d So taking note of our dreams, learning to work with\u2026 given that we&#8217;re going to spend around 30 years of our life asleep, we may as well use the university of our sleep to study and to become conscious of what&#8217;s driving us, what&#8217;s actually motivating us and what can we bring in, what are the new ideas, the new stories that embrace, that are bigger than polarity,<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">\u201cI\u2019m right, you&#8217;re wrong\u201d, that are much bigger than that? I can contain the whole thing. We need a vision, a dream of the future that inspires us rather than all these horror stories of what might happen. So many people live their lives in fear, especially in times of a pandemic. There\u2019s so much fear pumped into us and it&#8217;s very damaging. But we can, we can release that, we can open up.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">I think it&#8217;s a perfect moment to make us aware because this fear is not just happening now, it was as a seed there otherwise it wouldn&#8217;t come out now. But this is a wake-up call to \u201cHey what&#8217;s your way? Why are you afraid of something that&#8217;s not already here?\u201d And then of course there&#8217;s the real fear like a lion standing in front of you. Then you can run or fight\u2026 better not fight.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">I&#8217;m not going to fight any lions in this lifetime. I&#8217;m running.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">For most people if we talk about dreaming it&#8217;s like \u201coh I dreamt about my aunt yesterday and\u2026\u201d What&#8217;s the dream we are talking about? Can you give us your perspective?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">So there are different kinds of dreaming. There&#8217;s the kind of dreaming where we&#8217;re just working out our day-to-day activity. It&#8217;s like the brain cleaning itself, like a brain shower. That kind of dreaming just working it out, distilling, digesting, getting rid of what we don&#8217;t need and bringing in what we do. That&#8217;s like a functional dreaming. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But there is a kind of dreaming where we become conscious that we&#8217;re dreaming. We become lucid, we&#8217;re aware of \u201cI am dreaming. I&#8217;m in a dream.\u201d And as soon as we become aware that we&#8217;re dreaming then the whole dreamscape responds to us and we can use that dreamscape to look at some challenges we may be facing. If we have traumatic past we can bring that into the dream and bring in all kinds of archetypal figures to help us to work it out. We can literally change our minds and our beings through the power of dreaming. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So that&#8217;s a second kind of dream and the third, and perhaps most accessible, is dreaming while we&#8217;re awake. So when we&#8217;re in ritual or ceremony and we&#8217;re dancing or we&#8217;re in a rhythmic process that you might lead a group in or an individual in, there&#8217;s enough focus, presence, that we open to that dream state which is\u2026 it&#8217;s like plugging in a wire to a different radio station where there is new and useful information that may be about ourselves, it may be about something to do with our gift to the world, it may be an idea. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You&#8217;ll know that in that kind of state between waking and sleeping symphonies have been written. Einstein discovered the theory of relativity in that state. We are open in that state to the world wide web that existed before the internet. The world wide web of universal consciousness that we can plug into as the one that we are to receive instruction, to receive guidance, to receive healing, to receive support.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">I have a question. I have a very powerful Australian Shaman who has been working with the Kimberley Shamans. For 25 years he&#8217;s been guiding me all the time and we have been in central Australia in the desert, Uluru of course but also way beyond that in Kings Canyon and up to the Kimberleys. They in their way use something that takes them out in a dreaming and that is a Totem. That means that you are kind of learning to distill a part of yourself, very subconscious self, into a power animal and that takes you out in dreaming. Do you have that in the Shamanic traditions you learn too?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Yes absolutely. In shamanic language we would call them spirits, you could call them archetypes, you can call them\u2026 they&#8217;re not the same thing as spirit. It is independent of us. Working with animals that have particular qualities, that support us to go through whatever resistance we might have\u2026 we all have our own style of resistance, we all reach our own limitation or the edge of the known, and at that point where we&#8217;re at the edge of the known and we&#8217;re at the threshold into the unknown, that&#8217;s the point where we need our guides, we need something that has traveled. So a Shaman that has traveled there. Or individually you can find connection to a specific animal. Might be a mouse, it might be a lion, it doesn&#8217;t matter because each of those animals has a particular quality that is necessary to help you to take that step past the known into the unknown. There&#8217;s often fear there, there&#8217;s often a lot of internal dialogue and that&#8217;s the point of the normal reality starts to shake and we hold on and then there are guides, there are helps, there are support systems then that help us to let go and pass through into that dreaming reality. That&#8217;s my favorite in ceremony, in ritual, when I&#8217;ve been dancing. Once we can again we\u2019ll do a ceremony called The Long Dance which is 72 hour of dance ceremony. We just stop the music for three or four hours in the night and then straight back up in the morning into the movement, repeating, going through the same meditations. And after three days you have broken through that place so many times that you are in that reality that is a connection through time and space to life itself. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So there&#8217;s an expansion of a sense of self that is part of an evolving mystery of life on this earth and life in this universe. That&#8217;s a magnificent life-changing experience. What we experience in that landscape, although it&#8217;s vast, is so personal to who we are.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">And precise.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Very precise, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Okay my dear one. The last question. What are you putting out to the universe? What is your biggest wish that you could manifest in the next year?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">For me personally or for all of us?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Well if you choose to make a difference it&#8217;s up to you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Okay! My wish would be that as a species, individually, we find a way of being with the challenges of the modern world that changes our perspective from one of fear and terror about what might happen, to one of the great adventure. We&#8217;re on this great adventure. We know we&#8217;re gonna die. That&#8217;s the only thing we do know. I&#8217;m gonna die, you&#8217;re gonna die, we&#8217;re all gonna die. Everyone manages it, one way or the other. So once you&#8217;re gonna know that, there&#8217;s not really that much to be afraid of. So then this life becomes a great adventure and I would wish for myself to know this 24 hours a day and for all of us to recognize that we exist in this great mystery and that we are here to create. One of my teachers said to me once, \u201cif you don&#8217;t do your dance, then who will?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Well I think that is a perfect final statement and at this point my dear, I thank you so much for making it possible to come, take the time, get into this very interesting exchange. And I hope all you listeners have been also curious about Shamanism, about also Ya\u2019acov and his work with the Movement Medicine. How can they find you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">YA\u2019ACOV<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">The best way to find this now is through <a href=\"https:\/\/21gratitudes.com\/\">21gratitudes.com<\/a>, and there&#8217;s all kinds of free resources there and open events, workshops\u2026From wherever you begin, there&#8217;s a way in.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">REINHARD<br \/><\/span><span class=\"s1\">Wonderful! Please check that out and also if you like our discussions leave a comment and maybe you want to tell me what other people you want me to interview. I wish you a great day and keep on groovin\u2019.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p2\">\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8220;1&#8243; disabled_on=&#8220;on|off|off&#8220; admin_label=&#8220;desktop email&#8220; _builder_version=&#8220;4.9.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220; background_enable_color=&#8220;off&#8220; use_background_color_gradient=&#8220;on&#8220; background_color_gradient_start=&#8220;rgba(209,163,61,0.29)&#8220; background_color_gradient_end=&#8220;rgba(209,163,61,0.34)&#8220; background_image=&#8220;https:\/\/powerofrhythm.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/01\/gold_background.jpg&#8220; custom_padding=&#8220;4px||2px||false|false&#8220; locked=&#8220;off&#8220;][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8220;4.5.3&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220;][et_pb_column type=&#8220;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8220;4.5.3&#8243; _module_preset=&#8220;default&#8220;][et_pb_code raw_content_last_edited=&#8220;off|desktop&#8220; 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